Anybody up for it?
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cherylforba |
Buffy season 8 comic discussion thread |
Lead | |
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So anyone up for discussing these shiny pretty comics? They are canon, a season 8. They are honestly pretty great and who knows, may lead into a big screen movie. That's a pretty darn good reason to squee, if getting more Buffy from JOSS wasn't enough.
Anybody up for it? |
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comic fan1 |
Re: Buffy season 8 comic discussion thread | ||
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issue 1 covers
![]() ![]() issue 2 covers ![]() ![]() issue 3 covers ![]() ![]() issue 4 covers ![]() ![]() issue 5 covers ![]() ![]() ![]() Trade Paperback cover for first arc and issue 5. ![]() issue 6 covers ![]() ![]() issue 7 covers ![]() ![]() Preview pages for issue 7. http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=14-663 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() issue 8 covers ![]() ![]() issue 9 covers ![]() ![]() Trade Paperback cover for second arc. ![]() ![]() |
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cherylforba |
Re: Buffy season 8 comic discussion thread | ||
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Thanks Comic. Those are some pretty pictures. I loved the reference to Graduation Day.
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Bonnaleah |
> Re: Buffy season 8 comic discussion thread | ||
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yes, thank you comic. Those Jo Chen covers are frame worthy. Though I've never been a big Faith fan I have to admit that for me the comic is just now starting to really feel like Buffy. The first 4 were ok, and I know it takes a while to get everyone from the crater in Sunnydale to Scotland but it was a hard transition from tv to a comic for me. The Chain was a pretty good story but I wasn't emotionaly invested in the character so it didn't make me sad. I wasn't really even looking forward to the Faith arc...just thought it was going to delay learning more about Buffy. Boy was I wrong. It feels like the tv show and it's a great story. Giles is there and next issue Buffy will show up too. The only thing that sucks is waiting a month for the next issue.
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cherylforba |
Re: > Re: Buffy season 8 comic discussion thread | ||
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I agree. I also find myself waiting with more eagerness for this Faith continuation when I had similar thoughts hearing about her arc. Now I can not wait to see more and for Buffy to come on scene.
Can't wait to see how Giles and Buffy interact now. Can't wait to see the entire core four together again. These comics just keep getting better and better. |
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chuckit25 |
About the potentials... | ||
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I keep thinking of the line in the sewer arguing with Angel: I kill my goldfish.
FYI goldfish represent soul and/or wisdom as well. I keep thinking Buffy herself will end the potentials! This is how we head toward the future of Fray. I have to point out that Buffy was the "sperm" (fish swimming in the belly as Dru says) and Willow the "mother" in their clasp of arms to make the mystical connection to the power of the earth (female principle) to charge the potentials to their own ...potential to wield as slayers. I think their existence is why so much more evil is afoot--the universal balance has been shifted and thus the response. I also think that her own nature means she may wonder if she is no longer mortal, even if she can be killed. I think she will question if she fears her own power. This is where Willow is important. I look forward to the Buffy only portions and the simple respect of not going behind her back, even to proect her--ALL of the players are doing this now--even if tearing Faith apart is just Joss setting up th epain and and denied satisfaction and it's gonna just kill me. Buffy handed her the sword in Chosen and making an aware peace in sharing power was important to me. sigh. (I also think Faith is to Buffy as Spike is to Angel. ) Buffy will remain keeper of the key and guardian of the gate. And guess where Angel is? And Connor? I always see the parallel journey. chuckit25 |
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cherylforba |
Re: About the potentials... | ||
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So, some of us were having a "what if" discussion, based on the interview posted on the last page of this thread, specifically, what would a fan, who says season 6 is their favorite, think couldn't happen OR shouldn't happen, in the upcoming story arc. Something that will tie in to a "timeline". Something that will shock the heck out of us. Something we didn't see coming.
A theory....What if Buffy jumped in the portal in The Gift and wasn't really ressurrected in season 6 to her real life at all but is really in Hell, just like Angel. This theory makes a lot of sense given all the things that happen to Buffy in season 6 and 7, most of them could be considered Hellish in nature. Buffy also references the possibility that she is in Hell in Bargaining as she asks Dawn, is this Hell? But back to those Hellish events for a second... 1. Buffy wakes up buried alive in season 6. 2. Buffy loses her best friend Willow to the forces of evil in season 6. 3. Giles walks away from Buffy, abandoning her in season 6. 4. Buffy has sex with a vampire she hates in season 6. 5. Buffy loses the hope that a happy ending is possible when Xander leaves Anya at the alter, in season 6. 6. Tara is shot and killed in season 6. 7. The threat of losing Dawn to the system is real in season 6. 8. Buffy is almost raped in season 6. 9. Buffy can't feel in season 6, something that always made Buffy a real girl throughout the series run. 10. Buffy can't confide in the Scoobies in season 6 because they are what brought her back to the Hell she lives with. All those things COULD be consistent with a personal Hell for Buffy if she were awoken in an Alternate Hell like Universe, like say Glory's World. Working within this theory, the real Buffy in her real Dimension is still very much dead, with a Giles, Willow and Xander running around from that period. Buffy obviously wouldn't know any of this was happening. Theory 2. This deals more with the idea that there is something significant with a timeline and Dawn specifically, so we need to rewind to season 5, first ep, and imagine that when Dawn appeared in the story, it created an alternate dimension that Buffy now resides in. Like a wishverse situation. With this theory, everything that happened after the introduction of Dawn, has happened in an alternate reality. Meaning, Tara isn't dead, Spike and Buffy are still enemies and he is still soulless in the real Buffy Universe, with the alternate Dimension Spike running around in Hell LA with Angel. Imagine the Wishverse Buffy running around not realizing there is another version of her in existance, or Vampire Willow or Vampire Xander. So back to the list of Alternate things that never really happened in this theory...erase about everything that season 6 lovers love and season 6 haters hate and there you have the answer. Giles never deserted Buffy, Riley isn't married, Tara is alive, Spike and Buffy never happened, Joyce didn't die, Xander never left Anya at the alter, Willow never went *grr*, and the list goes on and on. Both of these theories would be consistent with a fan, who admits that season 6 is their favorite, who believes most fans didn't like Buffy and Spike together and who tells us that some fans are going to be shocked and maybe not like the things coming. All those things would in fact make a season 6 lover say....You can not do that One thing is certain, Joss has a knack for bringing us the things we could have never seen coming in a million years, things that we initially didn't think we'd like, only to later discover it's our favorite arc of all. Angel/Angelus comes to mind. So Joss can shake it up and change everything on a dime. I can't wait to find out what the real deal is. Does anybody else have any theories? We would love to hear them. |
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cherylforba |
Re: About the potentials... | ||
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Sorry, I forgot to include the significant parts of the interview....
Sam: Well lets go right into Buffy then because; let's face it, that's why people are going to read this. Georges: Sure. Sam: Now were you a Buffy fan before you became involved on the book? Georges: That's a really interesting story because no I wasn't. The editors are Scott Allie and Joss Whedon, of course. Scott had been the editor for the Buffy books originally and there were fifty or so Buffy books that had come out in the past few years. And apparently, this is what Scott told me, was that when Frey had came out Scott was editor on that and it was Joss' first time writing comic books and they enjoyed their relationship extremely well and from there Scott said "We really want to do something else. Let's keep this ball rolling" and, of course, it took a few years and that ball was rolling a bit slower but when it did Joss was like, "Yeah, I really want to continue this Buffy stuff because it looks like the movie's not going to happen so I really have all this stuff here that I want to get out. I don't want to leave it there and of course Darkhorse and Scott are like "Well, hey, let's do it. What are you doing? Let's stop sitting around!" And Joss was like "Yeah, yeah. Let me get back to you. I definatly want to do this." And Scott tells me that another year or so goes by and all of sudden Scott has a script from Joss Whedon and says this is the first issue of a four issue arch of what he was going to entitle Buffy Season 8. And of course from there everything sort of took hold and originally it was going to be twelve issues and just get in and get out and thank you very much. From there it sort of grew into twenty four issues. And from there Joss sort of enjoyed what he was doing so much and realized Hey, you know what? I can take a whole issue and it doesn't even have to be about Buffy. I can do something obscure that I liked about that universe but could never do as a B plot on the TV show but I can deal with it in the comic book. This is great!" So from there this brainchild became more of a forty issue extravaganza that Darkhorse said is, yes, Season 8 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and if you like your slayer you'll be liking it for a couple of years. Sam: Well I know, as a fan, it was like a dream come true when I heard about this project. To have Buffy back, by Joss Whedon, and not have something cheap or cheesy. To have the same quality of the TV series. So if you weren't a fan, did you get up to speed and are you a fan now? Georges: Oh, I was quickly. As soon as I got the gig, which is kind of funny because I actually had my trepanation about actually, doing this. I thought, "Oh, alright, maybe Ill do four issues and then, well, okay." But I wasn't thinking that was something I'd want to stay with because it'd be huge. Darkhorse was nice enough to send me Season 6 and 7 of the series and of course once I got the gig I got educated pretty quickly and was watching one or two episodes a night on DVD and quickly getting caught up. From there I thought, wow, this is actually very very good and I thought to myself that this was something I wanted to continue. From there I went out and bought Seasons 1 through 5 and started watching them so technically my final episode of Buffy was the end of Season 5, so I knew already what happened in Season's 6 and 7 because of the comic book and what I needed to be prepared for. But as a fan my final images of Buffy is her dying which is sort of poetic in a sense. Sam: Okay, fan boy to fan boy, whats your favorite season? Georges: You know, its funny, but I for some reason get this a lot. Season 6 is just such a strong season and it sort of ranks up there. There is just so much growth and unacceptability that you just don't see half of coming and it just really matures the series as a whole. Sam: Now that's the season with the nerds and Dark Willow, right? Georges: With Dark Willow and Tara being killed and Buffy going with Spike. I think people just hate the idea of her and Spike hooking up. Sam: I actually think the addition of Spike to the cast added a lot to the series. Georges: I would think that after seeing Seasons 1 through 5, and don't get me wrong because I love Season 3 because of the introduction of Faith and Faith is such a great character, and there was so many cool things that they did in Season 3 but I just can't look at Season 6 and not feel so emotionally moved and if a show can do that to me then they deserve what escalates. Sam: How close do you work with Joss Whedon? Georges: Well, Joss is, well, man, that guy totally surprised me. When I first got this gig I wasn't really familiar with the Buffy stuff but I was familiar with Joss. I had actually watched Firefly on television and I had seen the movie and I knew of this guy Joss Whedon and how big he was in the industry and when I first met him it was through the e-mail and I thought that the code is the writer and the artist develop this relationship since they are going to be working together and with Joss I was wondering who I was going to have to go through. Maybe I was going to have to deal with his secretary or representatives or what. So I e-mailed him passively saying "Well Mr. Whedon if I can ever talk to you let me know whens a good time because I have questions every now and again and I like to get a feel for what the writer is thinking" and he writes me back with a message that says "Dude, here's my phone number at home. Here's my cell number. Call me whenever you need and if I can't talk to you then leave a message and I'll definatly call you back and we'll go from there." I was like, okay, you don't want me to talk to your secretary or something and he was like, "No no. Give me a call." I was like, Alright. Okay...Joss. Sure thing! So he very much surprised me because I think all of us layman have this idea of what these movie star types are like because its all that stereotype that we have within us and Joss is so counter to that. Joss is one of those guys who you don't think of as "the great Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy." Your going, "Thats the guy at the comic shop. Yeah, I've seen him there." He's just so very approachable and very genuine and all of that star struck thing fades quickly and you think that youre with a regular guy and he's a very cool guy. Sam: Now I was looking tonight at the list of writers that you have coming up on the book and you have Brian K. Vaughn, Brad Meltzer, Jeph Loeb. Youre working with a really heavy group of writers here! Georges: Yeah, that was another thing that editor Scott Allie impressed on me which I didn't get at the beginning. He as like, "dude, don't leave because we'll be getting a lot of good writers and, yeah, you'll be drawing Buffy for a while but you'll be working with so many high caliber writers that it's going to add to your resume and, I have to say, in hindsight he was correct because this is a really great gig for anybody to establish themselves in the business because I get to ride on the coattails of all these great writers which I have no problem whatsoever. Sam: Now back to your art. I have a bit of a love/hate for comic books based on TV series. I collect some of the older ones from the '60s. Georges: What do you have? The Star Trek Dell comics? Sam: I have some of those. I have some of the Dark Shadows ones, and The Mod Squad and one of my favorite guilty pleasures is The Partridge Family and David Cassidy comics. Now specifically I'm thinking of The Partridge Family comics, the art is horrendous. It's almost like the artist took publicity shots and traced them and added dialogue. And then in the Dark Shadows, for the exception of Jonathan Frid or David Selby, none of the other characters resemble the actors at all. Now the stuff your doing on Buffy isn't like any of this because it's absolutely beautiful and you seem to capture the look and the personality of the characters and their resemblance to the actors that portrayed them. How hard is it able to take a real person and put them into a panel and make it possible for me, the reader, to recognize them as being Willow or Xander or Buffy? Georges: It was really hard at the beginning because I had never drawn these characters before and I didn't know what I was doing at all. I had to draw and redraw. When I do a page with the Buffy stuff in particular, it takes me thirty percent longer then if I was drawing a regular superhero page because that thirty percent is devoted to the likenesses. I'll be the first to say that I don't get it right all the time but there is an effort made there of taking that character and making sure that you can tell the difference. It may not look spot on like Willow or Buffy but can you tell, in that page, that this person is supposed to be Buffy and that person is supposed to be Willow and if I can accomplish that in some small way when I've done drawing I feel that I've done justice to the character because I don't just sit around and draw a facsimile of what I think they might be. I subsequently taken so many photos of Sarah Michelle Gellar and Allison Hannigan and everybody else involved that I got a notebook of just all of these face in rows. Eliza Dushku and Anthony Head and everybody. This is how I like to approach my drawing. I'll draw a face our first with whatever their supposed to be doing, like Buffy is shocked or surprised and then I'll go through my little catalogue of photographs and look for a picture of Buffy in a similar pose. It's never an actual pose but I want to find something where she is similarly surprised, and from there I'll try to render on the page more to what it looks like to that character. I'm not a big fan of just tracing over the faces because, in all honesty that would take a lot longer because then we'd have to find exactly that expression and exactly that size and that perspective and how that character is looking that it would just take too long. So from there I feel that I've developed enough of a short hand for the character, which is ironic because I really had trouble with Eliza Dushku as Faith in this four issue arch which is out now because, just as I finish her arch, I finally thought that I know how to draw Faith. I know how to draw Faith solid and she's gone and after these four issues we're going back to Buffy and Dawn. If I had another four issues with Faith she would be dead on. Sam: Will Faith be back eventually? Georges: Well when you read it you'll see that it's set up...well, obviously in the Whedon universe people kept coming back and forth and with this comic, yes, as you can see with Joss in the first issue arch, Amy and Warren have come back, so, yeah, I don't think we've seen the last of Faith but I don't know when she'll be back with so much attention based on her. Sam: Now youre talking about characters weaving in and out. Now with IDW do the Angel books, how much of Angel and Spike will we see in this series? I head that Darkhorse couldn't get the rights to use the characters; although we already saw Spike and Angel in a very graphic and disturbing way already that I can only hope to eventually wash from my mind. But on the other hand I've heard because Joss owns them he can issue them to anybody at anytime. Georges: Well I believe that 20th Century Fox officially owns the characters so if there is any official title going to they have to go through them but, yes, I would dare say that Joss Whedon has a very big influence on what the characters can do and where they characters can go. Yes, it is true that IDW does have the Angel franchise and with that the use of their characters probably wont come up in the Buffy title but since Joss has such an influence over this I think that if he were, and this is what he did with Angel and Spike as they appeared in issue #2, he himself said to IDW "Hey, this is what I'm doing. I would like to use these characters" and of course IDW, not being stupid, saying, "Yes, sure, you can do that because we would love to be working with you too Mr. Whedon." So on that level it can happen; just I don't think that since the properties are in two separate places that its going to happen often. Sam: Have you gotten any feedback from any of the actors from the series? Georges: Interestingly enough, the only one I've actually talked to and had an occasion to speak with was just recently at Dragon Con here in Atlanta. James Marsters and Juliet Landau were down and someone had mentioned to James in his panel if he had seen the new Buffy comic and he said he hadn't and they told him that there was a very graphic image of him, Angel and Buffy and, of course, he was outraged and asked who would even think to do that and who wrote that issue and someone yelled out "Joss Whedon wrote it" and he said "Oh well, okay, if thats the case, that's what Buffy and Spike and Angel are doing." And then when I met him and I told him I was the guy who was drawing the book the nice thing that he had mentioned was that he really liked the art work. I heard that James had written, or co-written, a book for Darkhorse and apparently wasn't too happy with the artwork. But James said that he really liked that one image and I said, of course, "If you ever want to work together let me know because I'm a big fan Mr. Marsters." Other then that I haven't heard from anybody and I honestly don't know why I get that question asked a lot because, when you think about it, these are actors. They play the part that was four years ago now and they are on to other things and I totally get that they aren't sitting around going "Oh, well, theres my character again." I'm sure they would have a passing familiar but I honestly wouldn't expect to hear from Sarah Michelle Gellar. Sam: The reason we all ask you is because we are whores for information. Georges: Mind you, I'd love to get a call from Sarah Michelle Gellar. Sam: Well lets talk about calls for a second here. You know Joss Whedon, right. Georges: Yes. Sam: And you have his phone number. |
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chuckit25 |
Hee... | ||
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I think people just hate the idea of her and Spike hooking up. Gee. Do ya think? Role reversal with Buffy as a vampire, the utter raging hate and self loathing in metaphoric bloody violence? I guess Saw gristle and guts makes good drama for the lazy? But what of beauty and loving passion so * courtly * made (and the world starving for it80 percent of published books are romance novels) aren't worth $4.00 a month? Its impossible to show so cheaply? It is all that counts when all else is seen as shabby and petty and falls away. Hold on Buffy and Angel! I use all caps for italics because Im lazy, so please forgive your humble swain for the appearance of shouting. I guess all the ka pow of comics (and even the kick ass physical female fights now everywhere) rather bore me page after page when it isnt even a metaphor. I mean we do know that some women can pump up, but aggression is not her power. The power of the female is in the diabolical ability to act in love and to create all the means, often done in isolation out of herself, to survive and believe in her own ability to sort through the lies and STILL come up in will and way TO BE HERSELF, and to bear love anew in infinite creative ways, even when the planetary scale of prejudice is literally trying to kill her. After all. This is both metaphoric and actual in the creative act and in the destruction that is required: No person is not her child, carried and protected and allowed breath once. No person can be whole without learning her lessons of the womb and the grave, both sides of love. The theories of alternative realities is compelling, particularly since LA is actually in hell on the Angel side of things. I do believe that Buffy is the protector of the nave and each time she gets up to fight another day is a return to innocencethe knowing of herself yet infinitely potential. I think she believes that the nave do have a right to their illusions until they are stronger in deeper connections with family and friends and such resources. She fights those that would destroy these threads and bindings with each other as this is why we are indeed a worthy species. That is why the slayers to me are the forces geared up against the Twilight for this does indeed represent change. Her slayers get the consolation of comradeship and connection even within war. I believe that the arts in mass media are actually moving from the gray area to that of grace. (Baked Cookies) The person who knows themselves wholly and knows what they would do in any given situation that would arise, (fluid adaptation), yet the paradox of being one within oneself (still or nothing) is in the state of grace. One cant swing a sword in gray areas, which is why we keep being shown bestial monsters. See Buffy chosen and Angel NFA or current comics. When they both figure out that the struggle is not a struggle but a state of being, they will be both immortal and human. More and more we are being shown the problem of dealing with people who are truly dangerous, but require the use of an AU in order to reveal them as the change Buffy actually fightsloss of naivite and ,therefore, evil. Of course, the robotic, the unfeeling, the institutionalized are all Joss agenda items which I do happen to applaud. But I do believe in the public good and that was so badly handled in Chosen. I also happen to think that anonymous benefactor of the castle HAS to be Angel, even if we believe the WC funds at Giles disposal explains it. Either way. The money is tainted and it was shown by Anne in Blood Money that it will wash. Money is merely an idea or convention and is just money. And that to me is extremely problematic for a writer showing endlessly the butterfly effect of cause and effect in the milieu of interrupted information for dramatic turn of POV. I prefer to think that Angel was PRETENDING it was Buffy in Rome to protect that slayer because he did say blue eyes to the bar tender in TGIQ when we KNOW he knows they are green. The unknown slayer had blue eyes. Blue eyes are seemingly deeply connected in the Buffy verse, have you noticed? It isnt just blond and brunette hair. So the whole TGIQ was an act, even if painful possibilities were being explored. The fact that Dawn is the key does mean that Dawn is the child that Buffy would protect and the plain fact that Dawn has had sex with a thrice wise means she has encountered what Buffy herself encountered in the 3 magics of life, death, and love, which absolutely are central to the awakening ( Shown in the first sexual union). Dawn is becoming. But it sure is funny to see her too big for her britches. Change of self and being able to recognize oneself are in the simple question, if one darns a sock until every thread is replaced, do you have the original sock? Is that child in you still there and able to exert influence on your choices? Examples, do you still spontaneously play, have curiosity, recognize self preservation and wonder, enjoy validation fear rejection? Or are you so grown up that that person is a memory with no power or even value to your experience today? The fact that both Angel and Buffy protect the spirit children of themselves and believe their hope lies in maintaining such protection in both Connor and Dawn, respectively, shows the continued battle ground of id, ego and superego. It is shown that all love dying is too high a cost for their own psyches. And it really is self love that truly must be won and where the change will occur after Josss left turn from season 5. Especially after the (unbelievable) depths and shape to self hate shown in BTVS Season 6 and in Connors utter destructionno different than that of Liam. So far, I keep feeling like i am not getting BUFFY"S Story! Shes an appendage to everyone elses. sigh. Introducing more and more details that fan out like spilt milk for an set up of endless franchises, leaving detail absent from answers, is not what I signed on for. Cheryl. I am absolutely done with Dark Horse forums. I pause here to thank you as I did in the Spike/Buffy Thread (for your defense and that of others) as usual. I continued my great big if diatribe in the Spike/Buffy thread because no one honors threadsI was being royally hooted again when they didnt even bother to read it! Further, I happen to agree with King a lot of the time, but feel he personally is so damaged by his own failure at first love, he cant comprehend what he felt is actually the most right thing about him and he is settling for all the mundane less or supposed adult in words like complement to life. My wife was my life and still is even though she is gone. I dont feel less for be so totally in and hope all the wonderful women I meet and know are loved and respected just so. How can one love less? No one understood that the entire post was an IF post. The magic of the first three seasons was all characters as described that were real. All of the fantastic was part of this reality. Buffy had sex with a vampire and with a human. Later she had actual sex with Riley. I didnt discuss if she loved any of them. But I did say the mystical union of opposites fit the mystical reality of the first three seasons. Then Riley took over the entire thread. I still believe that these people in particular believe they experience what love is everytime they feel sex, hope, kindness and desire combine. And it most certainly has to be hard won in some compatibility, like picking out a sofa. It comes and it goes when things dont work out. I dont. All I said was the psychological and the metaphorical planes of season 6 and 7 mean the characters of vampires have to be unreal (and yet manage to suffer REAL psychological problems of brainwashingnot a joke or a metaphor or some fantasy time rewind of mental rape snort); or they ALL are merely people with problems. This means LOGICALLY Spike and Angel cant exist all the way back to 1 through 3. Period. Only Parker and Riley were actual sex as Joss described in the characters having actual sex rather than fantasy sex. Buffy was screwing Spike in season 6 so that means it couldnt be actual as he wasnt REAL i.e. a human. (All others had human partners). Or he is a man with problems. Take your pick. I have found people who like B/S do like BS. They cant imagine that the great reality of their ship within the truly changed reality begun in season 4 WITH Spike cant ever be the great love of Buffy and Angel. Buffy didnt look too busted up when she ran for her life. And I do see the weight of the Buffy story of season 7 being in redemption. So I ask if this is the Spike story on the show called Buffy? Or is this actually all Buffy and Spike is a metaphor! These people only desire to pick and not discuss. They are endlessly negative and defensive and syrupy because it is just has to be hard to justify loving a rapist when the idea was to punish him , according to Joss. But then Joss decides Spike was not THAT man so he gets a walk! His guilt and problems have no bearing on future choices. Well, we sure are glad that is clear to those 10 murdered people and their families in the basement. (Glad he got all over it and is now screwing demons in hell as penance for loving Buffy so much-the comics). Spike was a Mary Sue, he used to be the vampire when the job was to stake SOULLESS vampires until back in season 4 when Angel left and all these tweaks and fixes to endlessly justify some new complexity was needed and is just pathetic. He was a character who has been used to literally be the female in this pairing and was clearly being beaten up. Buffy was the male principle aggressor. Then she gets raped and is clearly the female while Spike in HUMAN face is the aggressor. Female empowerment, my dear fanny under an ass hat. The problem, of course, is Spike is never in game face appropriately! I have always said that the entire story would be the same if Angel/Angelus were there and Spike was gone. We would have not been treated to the same mistake of Angel being * A GIRL* when the ENTIRE point of Angels journey, as pointed out by every female he meets, is to connect with the female principle within as a MALE in order to be the ever renewing human! And I will never get over the damn coat. Spike in that coat is a metaphor (meaning Spike is not real but an aspect of herself) that Buffy still needs to protect herself with her old ideas or the character Spike (whether a vamp or a man) wearing a symbol of the destruction of a slayer as a good thing at this point of the story is problematic for me. Well about those potentials. They are gonners. They have to be. Just as Spike comes out the saint. Just like Joss uses all other FEMALE characters: Saint Fred, Saint Cordy and Saint Darla. All birth givers to MONSTERS! Nice, huh? And then there is Buffy with her goldfish and Willow (the divine female) birthing her slayers. Willow is going to be turned into a saint. You watch. Blurggh. Buffy originally was not perfect, but I loved her and wanted her to be happy in the most important and satisfying way that she herself determined. I just happen to see that as with Angel because SHE thinks it is Angel. I am glad the comics are redeeming him a bit; he was a total thug CROWING about it. UGH. Also Joss has no *ucking clue to the continuity of ATS because he couldnt be bothered. He fires his mentor and is told to get some kind of sex going for this character Angel. So he fixes it with the drugged out WIW and all the protestations to be taken as hiding some great love were, in fact, mind bending operations of Jasmine to become physical in this world; Cordy was hi-jacked with a demon, and this made her both noble and loveable when we can see she is being manipulated and actually commits murder left and right. Skip the demonwho is totally evil is the NORMAL jossian Truth Teller. Further, Angel is shown to be ACTUALLY drugged and cast in a spell to have a romance that was all shown to be a pure fantasy of wishing. He and Wes are pals; his son gets it that it was an Oedipal whoops and inappropriate, all was forgiven and wonderful and happy; and then the only thing that was REAL was uttering Buffys name to snap him out of it! King is all wet because he needs it * ALL * to be real. That is the world of flat, black and white thinking (of many comic books pretending to be noirish) that he accuses others of. Anyway, the only way back to getting rid of the sword and living in the world with the gray area as * adults * is like the Arthurian legend of back to the beginning or Joss makes the decision to NEVER let Buffy grow up i.e. Dawn continues to live and is not the portal to other worlds; and this means she can inhabit the world where Angel is; or her inner landscape becomes the steely whore with a heart of gold e.g. Sin City. Period. I honestly dont see how Connor and Spike can actually confront each other in the same panel. I would be quite interesting if this was attempted. (They are two sides or in opposition of the same guy; the spirit child of Angel, just as Darla as the negative side of Buffy). I imagine we will end up with the iconic comic book of immortal superheroes to explore endless AU, as Cheryl so aptly described, simply in the over use of portals and in the device of time as not this understanding of time. Yours above, Cheryl, really are great fan fic waiting for connecting words! Youve got the outline. GO! I wish all of you a grand and graceful 2008 with all your hopes actualized in beauty and joy and do remain always, Your humble servant, Carlos |
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chuckit25 |
So what do you think? All spoilers | ||
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Do you enjoy the idea of Buffy being a thief? Got Gwen the thief back over on ATS, but the blame thang going on over there! Kinda echoes in Buffyland. Anyone read about the hellnostril in Cleveland? Ha!
What do you think of the conflict between Willow and Buffy regarding the "blame" for Tara's death when Willow chose to raise Buffy? How about the idea of Buffy's mission to end magic (this is the exact moment of crossing the threshhold into adulthood both in fairy tale and psychological interpretations of young adults) and specifically how this is in confict with Willow's major enjoyment and power of wielding magic, not to mention the seeming moral trading places between these two and even between the position of Faith and Buffy to Giles? Wow, everything really is changing! Buffy complaining about alone time is the only kind says something very terrible to me. 50 issues is a long time to hold on to hope. Again. Anyone notice the (was it sarcasm?) of Buffy asking about her dragon when confronted with the castle as "digs" and isn't it funny that the dragon was involved in sealing off Glory and a dragon is now Angel's pal? Yes, we all have told it's not the same dragon. um kay. I know there is so much in these comics that raise endless questions even as answers are offered, but do you like the direction of these tales-definitely darker? Does anyone think that this comic justifices Willow being bi--I always thought she was. Talking snakes here, but they are green so I am confused. Also seeing the integrated Nina with sun and moon out makes me so wonder about Oz who is promised to return, I hear. ANyone really hoping that Angel figures out his place really is shoulder to shoulder with Buffy after season 6 of ATS and that they both claim the state of grace--it embraces any condition or conflict as no longer the struggle so curse, no curse, human etc is actually irrelevant? Spike is sucking on that Cup of Torment Angel warned about, BTW. Should Connor know of Spike and vice versa? Helllooooo? Enjoying your thoughts! Any comments that you offer will be respected here--I'll vouch for these boardies! I remain always your humble and grateful servant in joy to find the dust fallen from your shoe, Carlos |
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Bonnaleah |
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I'm kinda rejecting the idea of Buffy suddenly becoming a bank robbing thief. The idea goes against everything I have come to know about Buffy Summers. I'm leaning toward Buffy and Willow both being played by the demon, with just enough truth thrown into what they were shown to confuse both the viewer, and them. They were after all in a space where realities blended into each other and were shown these things by a demon. Buffy initially denies knowing anything about the swiss bank robbery and then almost immediately starts to defend it. She has told Willow a few panels back that " this thing is getting inside them"...and until it is positively confirmed that Buffy is indeed stealing, I'm gonna go with the theory that the demon had somehow gotten inside of Buffy and was controlling her words. I have trouble believing that Joss would further denigrate his heroine this way...He claims to love Buffy, and I believe he does, so there has to be another explanation for what we were shown.
It's hard to know where Joss is taking this story regarding the "morality switch" hints between Buffy and Willow. Willow obviously understands the price of taking human life, and a big deal has always been made about Buffy's inability to deliberately kill hunan beings. It's a line she would never cross. Now that the enemy includes humans, she may not have a choice if she wants to protect herself and her slayer line. I feel she is justified in killing humans in self defence and it will be interesting to see where Joss takes this . I think Willows feelings about putting Tara in front of a bullet because she chose to bring Buffy back to life are pretty normal. I think most people do the same thing all the time, only on a much smaller level. If only I had done this differently, this horrible thing wouldn't have happened. Willow is being eaten up with guilt over a choice she made and has decided to never make that mistake again. I understand her decison but it also makes me distrust her. I halfway think she is going to be the betrayer. I too saw a red flag when Buffy speaking of alone time, asked if there was any other kind. She seems more alone now than she did in S7. She and Giles are on the outs, She and Dawn haven't gotten along since she changed the world, and Willow is distancing herself from Buffy too. Only Xander remains by her side...and the way this comic is going, you gotta wonder for how long. I think Willow is bisexual. We've seen her love both male and female. I think Willow falls in love with the person, regardless of the sex of the person. I wouldn't mind seeing Willow reunited with Oz now that he is returning to the verse and I really think he is the only person that will have a chance of being accepted by fans if Tara can't come back. I really think Angel already knows that his place is shoulder to shoulder with Buffy. He showed up in Chosen and let her know he would be waiting for her when she was ready...Andrews lie about the Immortal in TGIQ was the final straw for him and the catalyst for his actions in Not fade Away. Angel was made to believe that Buffy had moved on and that she no longer trusted him. Buffy was the one thing he could always count on and when he felt that was gone...he really didn't care about surviving anymore. He threw himself into a suicide mission to defeat the black thorn and now finds himself in hell. So sure, I think Angel would want nothing more than to once again fight shoulder to shoulder with Buffy, but since the franchises are owned by different companies...I doubt we'll get to see it for a while. As for Conner and Spike? I'm sure they will meet up eventually. I really hope to see some real love develop on Conner's part for his dad, but I don't really care about Spikes further story. He got his soul, redeemed himself and that was a good ending to his story. Not sure what they can do with him that would top that. It is Angel's story that I an interested in...along with Wes, Gunn, Lorne, and all the other Angel characters who were there for the entire run. Spike wasn't needed in S5 and he isn't needed for me, in After the Fall. |
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cherylforba |
Re: Buffy S8 | ||
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Aww Carlos, I always love you hear your thoughts on these shows. You have such insight, such wisdom and such grace that I am almost speechless.
I appreciate you coming to take a look at Dark Horse and I do understand your desire to stay away, not everyone handles the childlike insulting gang method of posting well, most of us are civilized individuals. Most of us actually have a life outside this Universe and participate only as fun and entertainment. For a lot of the posters you encountered, I think maybe this is all they have and that makes me feel a bit sorry for them, despite their hateful antics. So in thought, don't write them off completely, everybody deserves a second chance and if I can feel that way, considering I am the whipping boy to every other shipper group known to man, I know you can Carlos. You're a special guy and those of us who know you recognize that and love you for it. Be well and keep posting your thoughts, I enjoy them tremendously. |
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Helmi1 |
Should I or shouldn't I? | ||
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I'm not sure if this question is in the right place but I'll ask it anyway. Is Buffy season 8 any good? I've been considering buying the comics but
with the economic situation right now and the fact that where I live, the comics aren't exactly cheap, I would like to have a heads up if it's worth it
or am I just buying more heartache? (English isn't my born language so if you had trouble understanding me, that would be the reason).
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cherylforba |
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I can't speak for everyone but I am enjoying the comics a lot. Both of them.
Your Signature ... <a href="http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/cherylforba/?action=view¤t=untitleddbhhrcopy.jpg"
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comic fan1 |
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I've been reading both Buffy Season 8 and Angel:After The Fall(the canon Angel season 6 series) and have enjoyed both although I have had few problems
with After The Fall.After The Fall concludes this month and Angel:Aftermath starts two weeks later.
Last Edited By: comic fan1
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cherylforba |
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That is the coolest issue to date, Comic. Thanks for bringing it over.
What I am most interested in seeing develop, how will the two series cross-over, cause we all know it's only a matter of time. I live in anticipation for the next canon scene between Buffy and Angel in the comics. The dream cubes were a nice touch, as is the cross-necklace. Your signature picture and Joss taking care to have Buffy facing Angel (Future) in the art is priceless. I loved the issue from the past and specifically how Buffy continues to be so wrapped up in Angel. Everything about this comic has been pro B/A, not that I ever doubted, so yeah, I can't wait to see what happens when it's a real, present day face to face meeting.
Your Signature ... <a href="http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/cherylforba/?action=view¤t=untitleddbhhrcopy.jpg"
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comic fan1 |
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What I am most interested in seeing develop, how will the two series cross-over, cause we all know it's only a matter of time. Well things are now lined up.L.A. is back from hell as if it never left to the rest of the world.Everybody in L.A. remembers what happened and knows about vampires and demons.Everybody knows Angel saved the city and he is now a legend.Aftermath will be dealing with this.This dovetails right into Season 8 and the most recent issue with vampires now being known as a result of ATF with Harmony using that to become a media darling.Buffy and Angel continuity is now lined up. I live in anticipation for the next canon scene between Buffy and Angel in the comics. The dream cubes were a nice touch, as is the cross-necklace. Your signature picture and Joss taking care to have Buffy facing Angel (Future) in the art is priceless. I loved the issue from the past and specifically how Buffy continues to be so wrapped up in Angel. Everything about this comic has been pro B/A, not that I ever doubted, so yeah, I can't wait to see what happens when it's a real, present day face to face meeting. Yeah and my signature picture is cool because the artist,Georges Jeanty has confirmed that Joss was very specific with him in having Buffy favoring Angel and not Spike in the threesome panel when he was given directions on how to draw it. I'm looking forward to a Buffy and present day Angel meeting at some point too epsecially in light of recent developments in both canon comics. |
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cherylforba |
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Joss pretty much confirmed that Angel will be crossing over the Buffy season 8.
Your Signature ... <a href="http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/cherylforba/?action=view¤t=untitleddbhhrcopy.jpg"
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Lissa |
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I'm over the moon that the value of B/A has not been forgotten. I wonder if the massive success of Twilight (love those books!!!) had Joss wondering why he
ever let B/A go in the first place and kicking himself that he let a great opportunity go by. He should have signed DB and SMG up for a movie years ago!
I appreciate the comments on the comics. Haven't dared buy them yet but now you've got me unafraid - gotta lot of catching up to do! Cheers and keep the faith Lissa ~ |
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comic fan1 |
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cherylforba wrote: Yeah,Joss pretty much confirmed a present day Angel appearence is probably going to be coming later in season 8.It makes sense for Angel to show up now at this stage in season 8 or later given where he is at the end of ATF.Vampires being outed and Angel being known as the vampire who freed L.A. from hell.This ties directly into what's going on now in season 8 with Buffy's and the slayers PR problems thanks to Harmony From Buffyfest blog http://buffyfest.blogspot...se-panel-quote.html#links Buffyfest: When are we going to see Angel in season 8 of Buffy? "Probably when it's the most painful" - Joss Whedon From Dark Horse Forum http://www.darkhorse.com/...hp?t=12227&start=2445 Buffyfest: Also, thought you guys might find something else interesting in regards to Angel appearing in the comics. After Joss said the above quote, he then commented that Angel will appear when Georges Jeanty can get the drawing right. He said he talked to Jeanty and he was having trouble with it. http://whedonesque.com/comments/18975 I was also quite happy to have one of my season 8 TPB signed by Georges Jeanty who Joss actually mentioned at the panel. Someone asked when Angel will be in Season 8, and Joss said as soon as Georges learns to draw him. He then explained the issue came from "too much forehead". http://www.comicbookresou...page=article&id=19993 NYCC: Whedon & Penikett on Dollhouse Asked when Angel will show up in the current "Buffy" comics from Dark Horse, Whedon answered, "I don't know. Probably when it's the most painful, or when [artist] Georges [Jeanty] figures out how to draw him." He then joked how Angel was difficult to draw due to his "huge forehead." I'm over the moon that the value of B/A has not been forgotten. I wonder if the massive success of Twilight (love those books!!!) had Joss wondering why he ever let B/A go in the first place and kicking himself that he let a great opportunity go by. He should have signed DB and SMG up for a movie years ago! They've been pretty good so far.There were one or two things I wasn't too keen on in Angel:ATF such as the semi reset for example or Cordy appearing as a spirit in issues 12/13 to help Angel crossover to death but the series was good and I am going to be following Angel:Aftermath.They are also doing a Dru two-parter following Aftermath that JL co-wrote with Brian Lynch and a Gunn one-shot dealing with his status post ATF.
Last Edited By: comic fan1
02/14/09 22:21:07.
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Lissa |
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A huge thanks comic! You've been a real star keeping us informed. It makes me feel all fuzzy still, coming back to this board,
B/A love forever Lissa ~ |
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